Discussion:
[EXTERNAL] Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
Taliesin Smith
2018-06-05 15:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Tim, Jonathan A. and Jonathan C., for your help.

Tim, with regards to your last comment, where would you expect your virtual cursor to be, once you entered virtual/review mode?

I think Jonathan C. mentioned it should be near by, like at the containing element.

In our case, review mode seems to be starting at the top of the document at the H1, which seems odd to me.

Taliesin
Based on what you described, I would not expect the application to handle the situation where a screen reader user decides to switch to virtual/review mode—especially since the main purpose of that mode is to allow the screen reader user to navigate through the user interface without making any changes to it. <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
Thanks for your comments, Tim. These are helpful.
In the case, I described, a Voice Over user is Tabbing to an interactive control, a native range input (i.e., a slider). On focus, the slider does have “system focus”, it has a visual indication of focus and is operational. Adjusting the slider at this point, the user will get the proper experience (slider values and aria-live alerts). If the user exits web content with Voice Over’s command-option-shift-up arrow, system focus is not blurred.
Is it the responsibility of the web application to blur system focus, in this case, or is it the responsibility of the screen reader software and browser?
As far as I know, we are not preventing Voice Over from blurring.
Taliesin
I am not as familiar with Voiceover on Mac OS, but it is likely similar to iOS and how screen readers work on Windows. When using the screen reader’s virtual or review cursor, it doesn’t trigger focus or blur events. The idea of the virtual/review cursor in most screen readers is to allow the user to navigate the current contents without triggering changes to the user interface.
It is typically system focus that triggers blur and focus events. A screen reader typically only manipulates the system focus when it is not in virtual/review cursor mode but in some type of form or application mode.
That is likely the problem you are dealing with now.
Thanks,
Tim
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 8:15 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
Dear WAI,
I work with a team on making interactive science simulation accessible (PhET Interactive Simulations).
In recent Quality Assurance testing of a prototype for the Resistance in Wire <https://phet-dev.colorado.edu/html/resistance-in-a-wire/1.5.0-rc.5/phet/resistance-in-a-wire_all_phet.html> simulation, we found an issue when using Voice Over. It seems that Voice Over does not successfully blur (i.e., remove focus) from a slider control that has focus when the user uses the native Voice Over command, command-option-shift-up arrow, to exit web content.
The result is that the slider remains visually focused and operational via all the normal keyboard methods, even though the user is technically “out of web content”. In this case, Voice Over will not announce slider values if the user adjusts the slider. In this case, Voice Over only announces aria-live alerts. This means that the user is not getting all the information they are supposed to be getting when they adjust a slider. In addition, if the user re-enters web content using command-option-shift-down arrow, their virtual focus starts at the top of the sim with the H1 content.
We think the lack of blurring is a Voice Over bug.
Are we supposed to do anything special to make Voice Over blur focus in the case, or is this indeed a Voice Over bug?
Where is virtual focus supposed to go after a properly blurred event?
Is starting at the top of the page the correct place for the virtual cursor to be after a successful blur event, after successfully exiting web content with the native Voice Over command?
Starting at the top, seems to be the default behavior. Is it the correct behavior?
We have done a lot of user testing with blind users. Exiting web content after focusing a control is not something that has occurred during usability testing with Voice Over users.
It would be great to get some thoughts from experts on this list regarding this blurring issue.
Sincerely,
Taliesin Smith
Taliesin Smith
2018-06-05 15:19:06 UTC
Permalink
And thanks to another Jonathan (Jonathan Cohn),
Yes, I am talking about the stop interacting command.

I think you have nailed the problem here.

Focus disappears when the virtual cursor moves to an un-focusable element after the stop interacting command, and focus reappears when the virtual cursor moves onto another focusable element.

We do have containing elements, there are three sliders in a list.
We may need to group the sliders more explicitly for Voice Over to really stop interacting.

This is all awesome information that I can share with my developer colleagues.
Thanks everyone.
In the original email there is a link to working prototype with the described issue. I will copy it here again in case anyone would like to try it out Resistance in a Wire <https://phet-dev.colorado.edu/html/resistance-in-a-wire/1.5.0-rc.5/phet/resistance-in-a-wire_all_phet.html>Resistance in a Wire <https://phet-dev.colorado.edu/html/resistance-in-a-wire/1.5.0-rc.5/phet/resistance-in-a-wire_all_phet.html>.

Again, thanks.
Taliesin
The command you mention is the stop interacting command. This will move the VoiceOver location to a containing object which will depend on if Group or Dom navigation is enabled on exactly what the VO cursor will then be looking at. Unless a containing div can also have focus (perhaps via tabindex) focus will not move when doing this command because the focusable will still be in the VO cursor though perhaps additional focusable objects might be contained in the VO cursor.
Focus change will occur when the VO cursor interacts with another focusable item, or a tab/shift tab is typed.
Though if QuickNav is on with quick keys commander enabled, then when stop interacting is run, quickkeys should be re-enabled allowing navigation similar to Virtual Cursor in JAWS.
Jonathan
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:15 AM
Subject: Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
Dear WAI,
I work with a team on making interactive science simulation accessible (PhET Interactive Simulations).
In recent Quality Assurance testing of a prototype for the Resistance in Wire <https://phet-dev.colorado.edu/html/resistance-in-a-wire/1.5.0-rc.5/phet/resistance-in-a-wire_all_phet.html> simulation, we found an issue when using Voice Over. It seems that Voice Over does not successfully blur (i.e., remove focus) from a slider control that has focus when the user uses the native Voice Over command, command-option-shift-up arrow, to exit web content.
The result is that the slider remains visually focused and operational via all the normal keyboard methods, even though the user is technically “out of web content”. In this case, Voice Over will not announce slider values if the user adjusts the slider. In this case, Voice Over only announces aria-live alerts. This means that the user is not getting all the information they are supposed to be getting when they adjust a slider. In addition, if the user re-enters web content using command-option-shift-down arrow, their virtual focus starts at the top of the sim with the H1 content.
We think the lack of blurring is a Voice Over bug.
Are we supposed to do anything special to make Voice Over blur focus in the case, or is this indeed a Voice Over bug?
Where is virtual focus supposed to go after a properly blurred event?
Is starting at the top of the page the correct place for the virtual cursor to be after a successful blur event, after successfully exiting web content with the native Voice Over command?
Starting at the top, seems to be the default behavior. Is it the correct behavior?
We have done a lot of user testing with blind users. Exiting web content after focusing a control is not something that has occurred during usability testing with Voice Over users.
It would be great to get some thoughts from experts on this list regarding this blurring issue.
Sincerely,
Taliesin Smith
Taliesin Smith
2018-06-05 15:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jonathan,
System focus does indeed stay on the slider.
A user has to re-enter web content navigation for the slider to work properly.

Can I assume, that "system focus" and "keyboard focus” are the same thing? I find talking about screen reader modes and focus quite tricky, and I have read a lot on the subject.

Taliesin
I agree with Tim, exiting from web content navigation I would not expect a blur event because system focus would remain on that control unless the VO cursor focused another control.
Jonathan
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Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
I am not as familiar with Voiceover on Mac OS, but it is likely similar to iOS and how screen readers work on Windows. When using the screen reader’s virtual or review cursor, it doesn’t trigger focus or blur events. The idea of the virtual/review cursor in most screen readers is to allow the user to navigate the current contents without triggering changes to the user interface.
It is typically system focus that triggers blur and focus events. A screen reader typically only manipulates the system focus when it is not in virtual/review cursor mode but in some type of form or application mode.
That is likely the problem you are dealing with now.
Thanks,
Tim
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 8:15 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Focus/Blur and Voice Over Commands
Dear WAI,
I work with a team on making interactive science simulation accessible (PhET Interactive Simulations).
In recent Quality Assurance testing of a prototype for the Resistance in Wire <https://phet-dev.colorado.edu/html/resistance-in-a-wire/1.5.0-rc.5/phet/resistance-in-a-wire_all_phet.html> simulation, we found an issue when using Voice Over. It seems that Voice Over does not successfully blur (i.e., remove focus) from a slider control that has focus when the user uses the native Voice Over command, command-option-shift-up arrow, to exit web content.
The result is that the slider remains visually focused and operational via all the normal keyboard methods, even though the user is technically “out of web content”. In this case, Voice Over will not announce slider values if the user adjusts the slider. In this case, Voice Over only announces aria-live alerts. This means that the user is not getting all the information they are supposed to be getting when they adjust a slider. In addition, if the user re-enters web content using command-option-shift-down arrow, their virtual focus starts at the top of the sim with the H1 content.
We think the lack of blurring is a Voice Over bug.
Are we supposed to do anything special to make Voice Over blur focus in the case, or is this indeed a Voice Over bug?
Where is virtual focus supposed to go after a properly blurred event?
Is starting at the top of the page the correct place for the virtual cursor to be after a successful blur event, after successfully exiting web content with the native Voice Over command?
Starting at the top, seems to be the default behavior. Is it the correct behavior?
We have done a lot of user testing with blind users. Exiting web content after focusing a control is not something that has occurred during usability testing with Voice Over users.
It would be great to get some thoughts from experts on this list regarding this blurring issue.
Sincerely,
Taliesin Smith
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